Quote – “Sex isn’t supposed to necessarily be about love but it isn’t just supposed to be a complete physicality either.”
Interview By: Chloe Sutherland
Interview Subject: Lindsay Lace (name may be changed to protect subject)
Favorite Color: Purple
I had hoped to inspire others by raising awareness to a few issues that I find dear to my heart – human trafficking and sex addiction. Most people don’t believe in what they cannot see until it impacts them directly, however the world ever turning, holds many corners and many secrets. If nothing else, I simply hope to inspire you (the reader) to further educate yourself on something that you may not have known before.
Chloe: What are your thoughts on Porn & minors (in todays society) as consumers, watching porn?
Lindsey: There’s such a emphasis on love because it appeals to that societal branding. It’s a high, like smoking weed or drinking. I have watched a lot of minors getting into porn because it seems harmless.
Chloe: How about making porn? Or being In porn?
Lindsay: In terms of minors being in porn, there is large demand for virgins. There is a large demand for things we can’t have. There is a HUGE demand for minors because they (usually men) cannot just go out and get a minor for real, well now you have Can have that minor.
Chloe: Do you think this has anything to do with the raise in pedophilia?
Lindsay: I actually just got a statistic showing the correlation between people who watch teens and virgins and minor porn and pedophiles. It’s the “foot in the door” theory. It’s escalation. Nobody wants to grow up be a creeper, nobody wakes up with the intentions in the morning of being a horrible person and hurting a child. It all starts somewhere.
It’s not real until it’s real. They say you are a combination of the top 5 things you consume and watch. Seems accurate.
Chloe: Why do you feel Minors copy porn?
Lindsay: I think that relates back. Minors copying themselves, they are shown child porn first because they seek themselves first. (being minors themselves watching porn looking at relate-able material) They are shown how men should touch us and what women should look like and it’s not it at all. Porn being made is not it at all. It’s cameras and lights and people being contorted til they are uncomfortable. It’s a show, not pleasure.
Minors are attracted to porn because it’s like a secret book to what is sexy to someone or how to be attractive or how to make you love me.
It’s actually none of those things.
Chloe: What makes you think kids confuse porn with love?*
Lindsay: That’s what the media shows us. That’s how Hollywood shows us. Sexy. To be sexy is to get love. That’s commercials or in books that prop our boobs up, (women don’t even need to wear bras), and I think that’s how minors perceive us, is sex equates love. Sex isn’t supposed to necessarily be about love but it isn’t just supposed to be a complete physicality either.
Chloe: Let’s talk a second about making porn, asking other minors for porn, Snap-chat etc*
Lindsay: A lot of minors and things that have been normalized is taking sexy pictures and taking videos of people having sex. Then we see the POV and kinky and sexy. It’s attractive and have that risk factor. The only problem is it’s 100% of the physical. It’s never going to stay this young.
It’s a fantasy trap. The only problem with snap-chat and porn is it’s based off “we will be this young forever”, I think that’s why it’s such a huge thing. There is a massive influx of minors with mental health disorders. People their doctors aren’t asking why. They have all the symptoms which is the what, but they completely miss the why. Nobody cares. I feel this completely misses the point.
Chloe: How do you feel about the #outthem movement?
Lindsay: Men are physical creatures and think this is OK? Women are emotional creatures. Men flirt in ways they find attractive, when they see a picture, they reach out in ways that mimic porn. Like “girl come sit on my face” and it doesn’t work like that, it’s a shame. Porn and love and what is expected of us. This is what relationships have become? Let me send you a unsolicited dick pic? The #outthem movement brings to light that men shouldn’t talk to us (women) like that, nobody has talked to men about talking to us because they (men) have only been watching pictures (porn), porn does not equal how to have a relationship.
Chloe: Thoughts on Ashley Madison, Tinder, MocoSpace*?
Lindsay: Tinder is a hook up app and Ashley Madison is to cheat. Bumble and Grindr make it so easy to have anyone at your hand. It opens up a flood gate of porn and human trafficking. People don’t think about how many predators are on the other end of the screen. It’s based off surface level, media attractiveness. It’s a highlight reel.
Chloe: How do you feel Porn has changed expectations for girls?
Lindsay: You never hear about girls watching porn. You never hear about girls taking a shit. But it’s true we do. We struggle with addiction too. Guys are reined as gods for sleeping around and girls can’t sleep with anyone. It’s not allowed to be talked about. Too many times girls get in trouble for taking the pictures in school, but the guys never get in trouble for asking about them or having them. There is a reason why plastic surgery is more than about basic health care for demand. Demands for women have changed. The old demand for women was rail thin and tall and now it’s very voluptuous. We are raised around barbie dolls. With the porn industry their vaginas are perfect. Vaginas are not perfect. We are told how our breasts are supposed to look all the time, how big, how to lay, where to sit. We are under so much pressure all the time and there is no way to possibly look like that.
Chloe: How do you think this plays into men and women’s Mental health?
Lindsay: Mental health disorders are the leading cause of disability health care in the US. Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death. So very young, before we are taught anything. Growing up, we are asked what we are going to be or if we are going to be? Verse of we are going to be honest. I think this is placing a big mental shift. How wouldn’t anyone be anxious about it? Women have a significant high risk of eating disorder due to pictures, especially porn… Even subconsciously…. Which are so fake…. It’s so fake… It’s so imprinted and at some point, it’s making everyone have a mental disorder. Who wouldn’t have something wrong with them with this much pressure?
Chloe: What is Porns role in human trafficking?
Lindsay: A lot of porn is made from trafficked girls, it’s also made to show trafficked girls. Red light districts are made from porn. This is a circuit. It’s a Kink to western living for profit and attracted to the sexuality of this side of the world of sex culture. It’s a live action recreation of all the sex you have watched. There is sooo much money in it! Realistically it’s an empire of money. Sex sells.
Chloe: Do you think Minors know how they contributing to human trafficking?
Lindsay: I don’t think they do; I don’t think anybody wakes up wanting to get up and hurt someone. However, Human Trafficking is trending. It’s cool to talk about the End iT movement.
It’s the largest growing movement in the world. It’s also the fastest booming industry. What do you do when they teach you not to have sex but don’t teach you how to have a healthy sex life?
What does “See something, say something” mean? What does “draw a Red X” mean? They don’t teach STOP watching porn! And why, because it DOES have an impact on someone else and how. It is affecting someone else. It is tangible. It’s a not free click of the button. You Did just hurt someone.
Chloe: How do you feel Shame Cycles impact healing of porn addicts and the human trafficked alike?
Lindsay: Essentially, I feel like it impacts the people who watch porn, they watch and feel bad and tell themselves they are never going to do it again and yet it provides escape. And then to escape, what happens?
It IS the escape because they have no way to cope so they do it again. In terms of human trafficked it has to do with how you view yourself. It’s like depression, they see themselves this way. They know they are shunned. They go back on it because they feel like they have no other options. I know lots of women end up back in the cycle verse cast out and not eating and addicted to drugs. They get brought back because with no help its easier than being on their own.
Chloe: So, they are Runaways?
Lindsay: A lot of times it’s a last-ditch money, it seems great to start out with. Girls run away but it’s not. It’s sort of like the models. It starts out with a good idea, but it doesn’t always work out they may have a job and a place to sleep but then they don’t always get the bargain. It’s not a runaway thing in foreign countries. It’s like a leave because this is a bargain.
Chloe: So then How does human trafficking occur?
Lindsay: It occurs so many different types of ways, you can volunteer to go, you can be taken against your will, you can be promised something that is a illusion. Thailand girls are often promised a westernized life and then in circulation of sex. In Western cultural you can be promised to be a model and end up a porn star and once you are in its impossible to start over. After porn, it’s always a part of your story. You end up treated like a leaper when you come back. (if you come back)
Chloe: So, Thoughts on Hot Girls Wanted then*? (the movie–)
Lindsay: It’s genius. As a model myself, I’ve noticed a rapid increase in girls who will do anything to model, including girls who will pay for their own plane tickets to model to do all this stuff. Nothing more genius than human trafficking by targeting models who won’t know what they are getting themselves into until it’s too late.
Chloe: What roles do all those seasonal athletes like hunters, football coaches and such always making the news for massage scandals have to do with human trafficking? And what can be done about it? *
Lindsay: We must start holding these people accountable. Two, we also must be aware and not support where we go as clients ourselves. Who do we see? Is it regulated? Who is the person? Are they AMTA? Are they trafficked? What does that look like? I remember my mom trying to educate me when I was a kid what was good and bad about certain places and why. A group of girls going to get a massage in Sri Lanka changed their mind suddenly because the girls giving the massages were slaves.
Chloe: Let’s talk about Vacationing & human trafficking for a moment, what in your opinion, are the 3 most important things to keep in mind?
Lindsay: Sex tourism–travel sex tourism, in the movie Taken, once they get out of the airport, they get a ride to where they are staying, and she says they are new. Then this guy knows everything. Then they break in and sell them into slavery. It’s specifically popular in Philippines and Thailand where it’s cheap to go. Typically, it’s in Asian countries. The political and police force is bribed to look the other way. The brothels will pay the police to track the trafficked down and bring them back. Sex trafficking makes them so much money that they end up losing their economy, so the government look the other way unless they have too.
Lack of knowledge –they use Uber… In Chicago they use Lyft. In Boston use the Green train. Knowing what mode of transportation is how you get around. Asking what your name is of the driver of the Uber is saving girls from rape now. That is one of the biggest components that people don’t think about. Their society norms aren’t our norms. Most of the time in other countries you never know until you know, like in Israel, a cigarette is mixed with kush and hand rolled. If you asked for a cigarette – you can’t blame a person for being normal in their country when it doesn’t go like you thought and you’re the foreigner.
Cruise ship–mass amounts of travel in international water and UN and US have no jurisdiction.
Chloe: Is it possible to reach recovery from Porn addiction/Sex addiction?
Lindsay: I believe you can recover but I think people struggle with the idea of recovery. It’s never a destination to recovery, it’s a lifelong journey to recovery. Every day you must get up and make the decision to get up and choose not to use porn or step out. You must choose not to smoke or do drugs and you have to make the effort to be stronger than you were before, so you don’t end up where you were before.
Chloe: How would you go about Saving the victims?
Lindsay: There needs to be a bigger crackdown on trafficking and kidnapping. A bigger fine? Actual jail time? The economy is so booming with the money from human trafficking, it’s a multi – trillion-dollar industry. It is a 150+ billion a year. More resources. Why are we still focused on weed?
We have ACTUAL people being trafficked! We also need some form of common law, a lot is taken to international waters from ports and airports – like in Savannah, Georgia – the largest international airport for human trafficking. More than 260,000 passengers daily come through, how many people get missed who are trafficked? How many lives are missed or ruined because of this? There are approximately 20 – 30 million people in slavery every day. That’s 15 times the population of New York City. (for perspective) Minimum of 600,000 – 800,000 and this week only caught 18. I’d say a lot of people are missed.
Chloe: Let’s talk about it… The Wall “to keep trafficking down”
Lindsay: I can think of a million and ten thousand things to use this money on. There is a cool thing called water and air to keep people in. That’s why unless the wall has x-ray vision it’s useless. We should use the money to find the girls instead. What is the dumb wall in California going to do for Atlanta? There is nothing good that comes from dividing from hate.
Chloe: Instead of going in as a whole or subcategories, if the government did one thing to turn the gears, in this category, what would be one way to shift things more positive for sex slavery in Political aspects, what is your opinion as something that could be done for the victims that would be beneficial?
Lindsay: Whether or not the government is actively seeking to shut it down, if a girl is seeking asylum and she was a victim and you turn her back in, you – you were violating her human rights… You need to protect her. You need to give her hope. You shouldn’t be hiding and waiting to get caught, you should be able to be safe and get safe not be targeted and get in trouble because you got out. What does that tell the victims if they can’t make it out without being put back in? It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. It becomes just better to stay than to get out and risk better.
Chloe: States Laws and how they aide and abet the negative impact of the trade variously?
Lindsay: A lot of the time they gear towards the men. For instance, in Georgia if your husband wants to have sex and you don’t want to have sex, and he does – it’s not rape. You can arrest a man for a kiss on the cheek in some places but let a man go for beating his wife? It’s an issue because the first question is always “what were you wearing?” it’s a issue because “boys will be boys” why do people always want to touch a pregnant belly? You don’t want to touch strangers’ belly when they aren’t pregnant… It’s weird!
Chloe: “See something, say something”*
Lindsay: what am I looking for? Hey I’m being trafficked! Parents look at me! Parents be available! Or! Countless times someone was doing something or touching someone, and I saw it, You saw it… Yet it wasn’t technically**over the line so no man wanted to do something yet. It’s harassment and it’s scary… But it’s not enough to get me help yet. I am scared, but nobody will help me until I need help because I’m hurt. But when I’m hurt, nobody can prevent me from Being hurt. And everyone is like Why didn’t you come ask for help? Um, I Did… Nobody could help until I was hurt. This system is broken. What am I supposed to see? What am I supposed to say? Who’s suspicious? Where do I go? Are TSA in on it? There’s no protocol. Women are also told to ignore men when they get touchy or grabby or kissey or make comments. We are always being told to shush or its OK or he didn’t mean it. Very seldom will we actively pursue speaking up. Lots of men are becoming this way too. When we do it seems like we get into trouble too.
Chloe: What role do you think Porn & marriage play together this day in – the digital – age?
Lindsay: I’m one of those extremists, I think it borders adultery. I think the physiological effects are just coming light that a porn addiction is an actual mental health disorder. I pair it with anxiety or anorexia and can mess up your everyday life, whether you know it or not. It can cause ED or disingenuous enjoyment of your partner or spouse in sexual engagement.
Chloe: Parental denial while they are doing the same thing?
Lindsay: My dad was so hell bent on nobody watching porn when he was watching porn and masturbating. Instead of being open and honest, he hid it. Instead of teaching kids about safe sex most parents are about No Sex. Another thing about being a parent is they don’t make themselves available for these types of conversations with their kids. I hear all the time from my friends “I could Never talk to my parent about this” and I just don’t understand! My mom always made herself available to help me and parents are supposed to help and educate you not leave you out to dry. Parents constantly want you to know but don’t give you anything to look up to or leave you any room or reason for you to be able to come talk to you.
Chloe: Talking as parents to children…
Lindsay: I’d have liked the same openness. My mom said “sometimes we just gotta buck up” if I was addicted to weed or pills, but if it’s not tangible, it’s not treated the same. Parents talk to kids about smoking, but they don’t talk about porn. The big speech with “why it’s bad” and “it’s difficult to quit” and “how to find resources” and “after care.” Talking about sex and porn go hand in hand (no pun intended). Quitting smoking cigarettes is hard. Quitting porn is evener harder (no pun either) having sex is thought of as socially normal and never thought of as not good. It’s thought of as love. Especially for boys. People, until recently haven’t been concerned with porn causing problems such as PIED (porn erectile dysfunction) performance anxiety or depression.
Why isn’t it treated the same way as an eating disorder? Depression (something you can’t see) isn’t treated the same. People belittle it or romanticize it. The guy always wants the girl who’s broken or the guy you can “fix-just a little bit”, that’s not how it is. Until people start taking mental health the same, I don’t think porn addiction and anxiety (again, invisible illnesses) will get better the way they treat anything else. Your parents should be the first person you look to to help you. I oftentimes see the parents as the last person because of the fear of love or dislike or disappointment or disapproval.
Chloe: What’s after modeling?
Lindsay: I am going to be working on a music project, it’s very exciting. And I travel with a travel group who go around budget friendly and who find the hidden gems of the world. This personally, was a pretty educational project for me.
To note: Parts of the interview was edited out in post.
If anyone has or thinks they need to report Human Trafficking, the National Human Trafficking Hotline Number is 1-888-373-7888
Please remember, if You See Something, TO SAY Something.